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	<title>Comments on: Checklist Christianity vs. Following Jesus</title>
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	<link>http://churchethos.com/making-disciples/checklist-christianity-vs-following-jesus/</link>
	<description>Making Disciples :: Planting Churches</description>
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		<title>By: Nathan Creitz</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/making-disciples/checklist-christianity-vs-following-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-5999</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Creitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2010 01:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.com/?p=848#comment-5999</guid>
		<description>Hey Kelly, 
 
Thanks for your comment. I hope we can all get to a point where we aren&#039;t trying to follow a legalistic checklist but simply follow Jesus with our lives. Some days that means reading and studying and spending extra time in God&#039;s Word. Other days we may just take one verse and meditate on it throughout the day. I think there&#039;s value to a consistent, daily habit (say, reading one chapter a day), but there are also times where that&#039;s not as important as simply allowing God&#039;s Spirit to guide our times with Him. 
 
Thanks again for your thoughts! 
My recent post &lt;a href=&quot;http://churchethos.com/theology/genesis-one-framework-hypothesis-part-two/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Genesis One and the Framework Hypothesis- Part Two&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Kelly, </p>
<p>Thanks for your comment. I hope we can all get to a point where we aren&#039;t trying to follow a legalistic checklist but simply follow Jesus with our lives. Some days that means reading and studying and spending extra time in God&#039;s Word. Other days we may just take one verse and meditate on it throughout the day. I think there&#039;s value to a consistent, daily habit (say, reading one chapter a day), but there are also times where that&#039;s not as important as simply allowing God&#039;s Spirit to guide our times with Him. </p>
<p>Thanks again for your thoughts!<br />
My recent post <a href="http://churchethos.com/theology/genesis-one-framework-hypothesis-part-two/" rel="nofollow">Genesis One and the Framework Hypothesis- Part Two</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kelly Harasiuk</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/making-disciples/checklist-christianity-vs-following-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-5994</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly Harasiuk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 22:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.com/?p=848#comment-5994</guid>
		<description>*feel NOT so bad about my studies LOL, i shoul proof read comments first. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*feel NOT so bad about my studies LOL, i shoul proof read comments first.</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly harasiuk</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/making-disciples/checklist-christianity-vs-following-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-5993</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly harasiuk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 22:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.com/?p=848#comment-5993</guid>
		<description>thank you for your comment Rick, i couldent agree more, as a new christian i find myself wanting to learn more and more, i wish that sunday service was every day and wish i coul read the bible for hours on end, but i always feel overwhelmed and full after each time.  
Theres only so much i can digest everyday, and always feel like im looking at a endless buffet of food and feel like i need to eat it all, but i know that know one ever does, its a non stop learning prosess that we strive to reach the end of to the day we die. 
 
And i think your right on the button with your comment, and i only pray one day i could actually digest 3 bible studys a week, but for now i can barely take in the time i spend alone with the bible each day, sometimes it only takes 10 mins of reading before i feel my cup flow over, thanks for not making me feel so bad about my lack of studies with the bible, I just try my best to finish whats on my plate daily. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thank you for your comment Rick, i couldent agree more, as a new christian i find myself wanting to learn more and more, i wish that sunday service was every day and wish i coul read the bible for hours on end, but i always feel overwhelmed and full after each time.<br />
Theres only so much i can digest everyday, and always feel like im looking at a endless buffet of food and feel like i need to eat it all, but i know that know one ever does, its a non stop learning prosess that we strive to reach the end of to the day we die. </p>
<p>And i think your right on the button with your comment, and i only pray one day i could actually digest 3 bible studys a week, but for now i can barely take in the time i spend alone with the bible each day, sometimes it only takes 10 mins of reading before i feel my cup flow over, thanks for not making me feel so bad about my lack of studies with the bible, I just try my best to finish whats on my plate daily.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Hoover</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/making-disciples/checklist-christianity-vs-following-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-535</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Hoover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.com/?p=848#comment-535</guid>
		<description>Good question, Rick. (By the way, I&#039;m a fellow Canadian, too, from Windsor, Ontario.) I guess I meant &quot;fake&quot; in the sense that the message they represent about Christ is fake. That&#039;s why I qualified it by saying I don&#039;t mean to imply they aren&#039;t saved. I definitely think there are some &quot;fake Christians&quot; who are not saved, but there are some hypocrites who represent a fake message that are probably saved (if they smarten up!), and there are some who don&#039;t know any better, represent a fake message out of ignorance, but change once they learn better. 
 
Rick, feel free to continue this discussion here, or on my blog, where you can find contact details to reach me in other ways. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good question, Rick. (By the way, I&#039;m a fellow Canadian, too, from Windsor, Ontario.) I guess I meant &quot;fake&quot; in the sense that the message they represent about Christ is fake. That&#039;s why I qualified it by saying I don&#039;t mean to imply they aren&#039;t saved. I definitely think there are some &quot;fake Christians&quot; who are not saved, but there are some hypocrites who represent a fake message that are probably saved (if they smarten up!), and there are some who don&#039;t know any better, represent a fake message out of ignorance, but change once they learn better. </p>
<p>Rick, feel free to continue this discussion here, or on my blog, where you can find contact details to reach me in other ways.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Hoover</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/making-disciples/checklist-christianity-vs-following-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-534</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Hoover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:27:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.com/?p=848#comment-534</guid>
		<description>Hi Rick, 
 
You got what I was getting at! The problem I identified is measuring our spiritual growth by how many bible studies we attend. But what if our methodology is flawed, as you said? At my church, we have a Sunday morning bible study, a sermon, and a Wednesday night bible study. Of course, members are &quot;expected&quot; to be there because &quot;studying the bible is a good thing and will help you grow in your faith.&quot; I agree with that--but I also agree with you that it can be overkill. 
 
I&#039;ve often wondered why, in a bible study, we don&#039;t study a book of the bible, then take a break from studying so we can implement what we learned. Why not study for a month, then take the next month to apply? I wonder if this approach would &quot;weed out&quot; those who are focused on the checklist (mere attendance) and those who are focused on true spiritual growth. 
 
I really like your idea of preaching on the first Sunday, then unpacking and applying it the next weeks. I may try to implement something like that here. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rick, </p>
<p>You got what I was getting at! The problem I identified is measuring our spiritual growth by how many bible studies we attend. But what if our methodology is flawed, as you said? At my church, we have a Sunday morning bible study, a sermon, and a Wednesday night bible study. Of course, members are &quot;expected&quot; to be there because &quot;studying the bible is a good thing and will help you grow in your faith.&quot; I agree with that&#8211;but I also agree with you that it can be overkill. </p>
<p>I&#039;ve often wondered why, in a bible study, we don&#039;t study a book of the bible, then take a break from studying so we can implement what we learned. Why not study for a month, then take the next month to apply? I wonder if this approach would &quot;weed out&quot; those who are focused on the checklist (mere attendance) and those who are focused on true spiritual growth. </p>
<p>I really like your idea of preaching on the first Sunday, then unpacking and applying it the next weeks. I may try to implement something like that here.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Cruse</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/making-disciples/checklist-christianity-vs-following-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-533</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Cruse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 03:50:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.com/?p=848#comment-533</guid>
		<description>Jeremy: I&#039;ve been pondering all weekend a statement you made earlier in this conversation. I admit it has me mystified, in part because of its presence here and in part because I&#039;ve heard it over and over again in similar circumstances: 
 
&quot;There are what I consider to be &#8220;fake&#8221; Christians. I do not mean this to imply they aren&#8217;t saved....&quot; 
 
If, indeed, these are &quot;false Christians&#039; (and I have no idea of whom you speak), why in the world would you feel the necessity to &quot;not imply&quot; something about their being &quot;saved&quot;? 
 
Why, just because at some point some person has expressed some sort of verbal assent to some list of things about themselves and Jesus, do we feel the need to &quot;safe a seat for them at the Table&quot;? 
 
I feel this perpetuates a &quot;two-tiered&quot; Christianity: the &quot;entry level&quot; Christian (who claims the designation on the basis of &quot;praying the prayer&quot;) and the &quot;being transformed&quot; disciple. We confuse the mediocre cultural imitation of Christianity (&quot;it really is all about me/us&quot;) with the authentic version where it really is all about Him. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy: I&#039;ve been pondering all weekend a statement you made earlier in this conversation. I admit it has me mystified, in part because of its presence here and in part because I&#039;ve heard it over and over again in similar circumstances: </p>
<p>&quot;There are what I consider to be &ldquo;fake&rdquo; Christians. I do not mean this to imply they aren&rsquo;t saved&#8230;.&quot; </p>
<p>If, indeed, these are &quot;false Christians&#039; (and I have no idea of whom you speak), why in the world would you feel the necessity to &quot;not imply&quot; something about their being &quot;saved&quot;? </p>
<p>Why, just because at some point some person has expressed some sort of verbal assent to some list of things about themselves and Jesus, do we feel the need to &quot;safe a seat for them at the Table&quot;? </p>
<p>I feel this perpetuates a &quot;two-tiered&quot; Christianity: the &quot;entry level&quot; Christian (who claims the designation on the basis of &quot;praying the prayer&quot;) and the &quot;being transformed&quot; disciple. We confuse the mediocre cultural imitation of Christianity (&quot;it really is all about me/us&quot;) with the authentic version where it really is all about Him.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Cruse</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/making-disciples/checklist-christianity-vs-following-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-532</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Cruse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 05:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.com/?p=848#comment-532</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s perhaps turn the 4,000 sermon issue on its head and ask the question from the other side: how is it that some very faithful (in attendance) people in our congregations are unchanged after years of faithful listening? Does this not, perhaps, direct us to Jesus&#039;  closing story in the Sermon on the Mount? The issue is not in the knowing but in the practicing. 
 
Yet, in the final analysis, is the problem actually our tried and true Sunday methodology that relentlessly piles one sermon after another on those who are not given adequate time and help to digest? Imagine the indigestion in those who hear two or three sermons a week. Three meals each day is great...if the digestive system is active. Otherwise we end up with spiritual constipation: much food, little movement! 
 
What if we preached a sermon on the first Sunday of the month, then used the remaining Sundays to unpack, apply, emphasize, underscore. Use our times of gathering as aids to digestion. Only food that is digested gives strength to the body to live and to act. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#039;s perhaps turn the 4,000 sermon issue on its head and ask the question from the other side: how is it that some very faithful (in attendance) people in our congregations are unchanged after years of faithful listening? Does this not, perhaps, direct us to Jesus&#039;  closing story in the Sermon on the Mount? The issue is not in the knowing but in the practicing. </p>
<p>Yet, in the final analysis, is the problem actually our tried and true Sunday methodology that relentlessly piles one sermon after another on those who are not given adequate time and help to digest? Imagine the indigestion in those who hear two or three sermons a week. Three meals each day is great&#8230;if the digestive system is active. Otherwise we end up with spiritual constipation: much food, little movement! </p>
<p>What if we preached a sermon on the first Sunday of the month, then used the remaining Sundays to unpack, apply, emphasize, underscore. Use our times of gathering as aids to digestion. Only food that is digested gives strength to the body to live and to act.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Hoover</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/making-disciples/checklist-christianity-vs-following-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-531</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Hoover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.com/?p=848#comment-531</guid>
		<description>I was just kidding about the &quot;rebuke!&quot; Hence, the quotation marks! I&#039;ve really enjoyed the discussion on this post. I&#039;ve added a little more about the &quot;4,000 bible studies&quot; on my blog at this link: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jeremyhoover.com/2/post/2009/06/quality-vs-quantity.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.jeremyhoover.com/2/post/2009/06/qualit...&lt;/a&gt;. 
 
Nathan, thanks again for the invite to guest post! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just kidding about the &quot;rebuke!&quot; Hence, the quotation marks! I&#039;ve really enjoyed the discussion on this post. I&#039;ve added a little more about the &quot;4,000 bible studies&quot; on my blog at this link: <a href="http://www.jeremyhoover.com/2/post/2009/06/quality-vs-quantity.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.jeremyhoover.com/2/post/2009/06/qualit&#8230;</a>. </p>
<p>Nathan, thanks again for the invite to guest post!</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Creitz</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/making-disciples/checklist-christianity-vs-following-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-530</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Creitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.com/?p=848#comment-530</guid>
		<description>No rebuke&#8230;I agree with you and I think you&#8217;ve cleared up your point nicely. The same sermon, Bible study, or Bible verse can transform a person inside and out and it can fall on deaf ears with someone else. It&#8217;s not the message or the messenger, it&#8217;s the receiver of that message that matters. If we haven&#8217;t made a decision to follow Jesus then those years of studying the Bible are wasted because of a hard heart or a weak mind. Thanks for clarifying and sorry if it sounded like I was disagreeing, just trying to get at the bottom of what you are saying in your post. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No rebuke&hellip;I agree with you and I think you&rsquo;ve cleared up your point nicely. The same sermon, Bible study, or Bible verse can transform a person inside and out and it can fall on deaf ears with someone else. It&rsquo;s not the message or the messenger, it&rsquo;s the receiver of that message that matters. If we haven&rsquo;t made a decision to follow Jesus then those years of studying the Bible are wasted because of a hard heart or a weak mind. Thanks for clarifying and sorry if it sounded like I was disagreeing, just trying to get at the bottom of what you are saying in your post.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Hoover</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/making-disciples/checklist-christianity-vs-following-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-529</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Hoover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.com/?p=848#comment-529</guid>
		<description>Nathan, your last paragraph hits the mark and is what I was getting at with the 4,000 bible studies comments. Relationship and desire are the guiding factors in following Jesus, which are things that cannot be checked off. 
 
My only point with the 4,000 bible studies was that I can check off 3-4 bible studies each week for over 20 years and not be any closer to Jesus as a result. The quantity of bible studies isn&#039;t as important as the quality--measured both by the content being delivered and by the desire of the one receiving to apply it. 
 
Thanks for stopping in to &quot;rebuke&quot; me! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan, your last paragraph hits the mark and is what I was getting at with the 4,000 bible studies comments. Relationship and desire are the guiding factors in following Jesus, which are things that cannot be checked off. </p>
<p>My only point with the 4,000 bible studies was that I can check off 3-4 bible studies each week for over 20 years and not be any closer to Jesus as a result. The quantity of bible studies isn&#039;t as important as the quality&#8211;measured both by the content being delivered and by the desire of the one receiving to apply it. </p>
<p>Thanks for stopping in to &quot;rebuke&quot; me!</p>
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