Rick, feel free to continue this discussion here, or on my blog, where you can find contact details to reach me in other ways.

You got what I was getting at! The problem I identified is measuring our spiritual growth by how many bible studies we attend. But what if our methodology is flawed, as you said? At my church, we have a Sunday morning bible study, a sermon, and a Wednesday night bible study. Of course, members are “expected” to be there because “studying the bible is a good thing and will help you grow in your faith.” I agree with that–but I also agree with you that it can be overkill.

I’ve often wondered why, in a bible study, we don’t study a book of the bible, then take a break from studying so we can implement what we learned. Why not study for a month, then take the next month to apply? I wonder if this approach would “weed out” those who are focused on the checklist (mere attendance) and those who are focused on true spiritual growth.

I really like your idea of preaching on the first Sunday, then unpacking and applying it the next weeks. I may try to implement something like that here.

“There are what I consider to be “fake” Christians. I do not mean this to imply they aren’t saved….”

If, indeed, these are “false Christians’ (and I have no idea of whom you speak), why in the world would you feel the necessity to “not imply” something about their being “saved”?

Why, just because at some point some person has expressed some sort of verbal assent to some list of things about themselves and Jesus, do we feel the need to “safe a seat for them at the Table”?

I feel this perpetuates a “two-tiered” Christianity: the “entry level” Christian (who claims the designation on the basis of “praying the prayer”) and the “being transformed” disciple. We confuse the mediocre cultural imitation of Christianity (“it really is all about me/us”) with the authentic version where it really is all about Him.

Yet, in the final analysis, is the problem actually our tried and true Sunday methodology that relentlessly piles one sermon after another on those who are not given adequate time and help to digest? Imagine the indigestion in those who hear two or three sermons a week. Three meals each day is great…if the digestive system is active. Otherwise we end up with spiritual constipation: much food, little movement!

What if we preached a sermon on the first Sunday of the month, then used the remaining Sundays to unpack, apply, emphasize, underscore. Use our times of gathering as aids to digestion. Only food that is digested gives strength to the body to live and to act.

Nathan, thanks again for the invite to guest post!

My only point with the 4,000 bible studies was that I can check off 3-4 bible studies each week for over 20 years and not be any closer to Jesus as a result. The quantity of bible studies isn’t as important as the quality–measured both by the content being delivered and by the desire of the one receiving to apply it.

Thanks for stopping in to “rebuke” me!

However, the discussion about sitting through 4,000 Bible studies and sermons seems beside the point. I agree that there are some ministries that are not producing any change in people’s lives. I have to admit, as one who is called to preach and who strives to do so effectively, I don’t think every sermon I preach is going to effect transformation in every life every week. But I do think I can deliver each person a “home cooked meal” (so to speak) every week and strengthen their faith. Every day, we eat about three times. Not every one of those meals is going to be caviar or lobster but they keep us going. Who knows what that person would be like if he or she had not sat under those 4,000 Bible studies. Sometimes transformation happens over time and sometimes it happens in a moment.

Having said all of that, the “following Jesus” vs. “checklist Christianity” is a good concept for reflection and there are definitely people who think they have now found favor with God, simply because they showed up at church or volunteered in the nursery. There are others, however, who love working with children and THAT’s why they volunteer in the nursery. Let’s let our actions be motivated by a true relationship and a sincere desire to follow Jesus.

Thanks again for responding. I don’t think we’re saying the same thing because I think we’re addressing different issues, but I largely agree with what you’re writing. There is an aspect of “being” but also of “doing.” This is very clear in scripture.

My only point in the original post is this: are we pursuing our faith by works (a checklist) or by trusting Jesus’ leading in our lives?

Thanks for the discussion. I’m really enjoying it.

I had a loooong response back to you, but as I was proof-reading it I accidently hit a wrong button and poof!…it was gone. I’m a firm believer in God’s sovereignty, so I guess I shouldn’t be too upset that He had mercy on everyone else and decided to “delete” what had turned into a book-length response.

So, I’ll try doing this again…

I guess my main point, in a nutshell, is that we are like Jesus when we live out our calling as children of God as He lived out His calling as THE Son of God. The Old Testament spoke of Jesus, it painted His portrait; but Jesus didn’t have to pore over the Old Testament to discover what He was called to do. He knew who He was and simply lived His life. He didn’t set out to DO anything, per say, He simply (pardon the grammar) BE. All Jesus did was to live out the reality of who He was. And we are like Jesus (practically) when we live out the reality of who we are—not when we DO, but when we…BE.

We are rightly called to follow Jesus; He is our example. But He’s our example NOT in what He did, per say, but in who He was. The things that Jesus did were simply the manifestation of who He was. So we imitate Jesus by having a constant awareness of who we are as children of God in Him and allowing that reality to manifest itself in our lives by the power of the indwelling Spirit. To be like Jesus is to BE who we are in the same way that He BE who He was. Jesus lived as a (the) Son of God—not in what He did, but in who He was. So we too are to live as “sons” (children) of God—not in what we do, but in who we are. If we’re like Jesus in being true to who we are, then what we do will manifest the reality of who we are…and our lives will look very similar to Jesus’ life (and the world will see Him in us).

It’s really as simple as that…though that doesn’t mean it’s easy. We still struggle with the flesh, we still struggle with sin because we’re a work in progress. But, praise God, the Spirit will complete His work. We’re progressively being conformed (back) into the likeness of Christ (our original design as “image-sons”) NOT by what we do but by the work of the Spirit in us. What we do is either a work of the flesh which doesn’t please God, or a work of the Spirit as He continues our transformation into Christ likeness.

Our lives in world are governed biblically by the reality of our union with Christ. We’ve been joined to Christ by the Spirit. We are “sons” of God “in” THE Son of God through the presence of the indwelling Spirit. This truth is so important that Paul attributes the life that he lives to life of Christ in Him by the Spirit. Paul says it this way: “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life that I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered Himself up for me.”

It’s this union with Christ in the Spirit that is the source for any good thing that we do. And the language that Paul uses is not be confused with determinism, as if Paul has ceased to exist as a self-conscious being and now Christ is moving his arms and legs to do His will in spite of the person of Paul himself. No, Paul understands his union with Christ in such a way that if he, Paul, would simply live out the reality of who he is as a “born again”, Spirit indwelt “son” of God, that his life would manifest the essential character of the life of Christ. To “be” God’s “son” is to be led by the Spirit which is to “be” like Christ. Isn’t this what Paul tells us in Romans? “For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” And Paul recognizes the presence of the Spirit of God as presence of Christ Himself (Rom. 8:9-10).

I know it may seem like I’m splitting hairs here, but I think the distinction between “doing” and “being” needs to be made. Anyone with enough motivation can do anything that he thinks will be of benefit to him—even “following Jesus”. But unless our “following Jesus” is the natural result of who we are as children of God (being led by the Spirit), then our doing is simply another manifestation of sin-the sin of unbelief and autonomy. Our motivation for godly living is ontological—we’re to be who we are.

Of course, to “be” who we are it is necessary that we “know” who we are. And since this post has already approached the length of my previous “God-ordained” deleted post (and is fruitful as another topic), I’ll simply say this: We live into the reality of who we are only to the extent that we grow in knowledge of who we are. And we grow in knowledge of who we are to the extent that we grow in knowledge of WHO Christ is and WHAT Christ has accomplished in this great redemption that is found in Him. Love of God and knowledge of God are inseparable (not identical). The more we know our God and Savior (who He is and what He has done), the more we, as God’s children, will love Him and live as Jesus lived—as “sons”.

Well, so much for my “in a nutshell” comment or my assumption that God had caused me to delete the previous post because of its length (unless I hit another wrong button before posting this!). Sorry this became so long, I just get excited when I “talk” about these things. Now you all know how my wife feels when someone stops us after church to ask me a question!

I’m sure I haven’t been as clear as I probably can be regarding the distinction between “doing” and “being”, but I hope you all get what I’m trying to convey. Good luck!

Thanks for indulging me…

Jason