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	<title>Comments on: A Gathering Church</title>
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	<description>Making Disciples :: Planting Churches</description>
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		<title>By: Jon Reid</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/a-gathering-church/comment-page-1/#comment-439</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Reid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 19:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Too many people tackle this question by looking at mechanics and structure. I like the way you instead bring up deeper purposes. If we focus on those, we&#039;ll eventually figure out which mechanics are or aren&#039;t helpful for a particular community. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too many people tackle this question by looking at mechanics and structure. I like the way you instead bring up deeper purposes. If we focus on those, we&#039;ll eventually figure out which mechanics are or aren&#039;t helpful for a particular community.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Creitz</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/a-gathering-church/comment-page-1/#comment-438</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Creitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 08:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=548#comment-438</guid>
		<description>Thanks Christine - Great ideas and there is definitely much to learn from those who have gone before us. People of faith and of prayer that modeled Christian community. We have to realize that our lives need to change. We need to draw closer to God and to one another. Like you said, even if it&#039;s just an additional four minutes, we&#039;ve got to start somewhere. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Christine &#8211; Great ideas and there is definitely much to learn from those who have gone before us. People of faith and of prayer that modeled Christian community. We have to realize that our lives need to change. We need to draw closer to God and to one another. Like you said, even if it&#039;s just an additional four minutes, we&#039;ve got to start somewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Creitz</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/a-gathering-church/comment-page-1/#comment-437</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Creitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 08:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=548#comment-437</guid>
		<description>Rask - Thanks for adding the Irish perspective. I can only write what I see here from my little corner of the world (Boston, another region of Ireland), but I know some of the problems and bad habits that I write about are a little more universal than I&#039;d like. I appreciate your willingness to admit your struggle and I know I can share in admitting that it is hard to be authentic with people. Good to hear all that you are doing to try and stimulate people to love and good deeds. Hang in there! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rask &#8211; Thanks for adding the Irish perspective. I can only write what I see here from my little corner of the world (Boston, another region of Ireland), but I know some of the problems and bad habits that I write about are a little more universal than I&#039;d like. I appreciate your willingness to admit your struggle and I know I can share in admitting that it is hard to be authentic with people. Good to hear all that you are doing to try and stimulate people to love and good deeds. Hang in there!</p>
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		<title>By: Peter (GoGod)</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/a-gathering-church/comment-page-1/#comment-436</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter (GoGod)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 03:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=548#comment-436</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s been a joy to come back and read the comments. 
 
The essence of the article is the &quot;gathering together&quot;. As the body of God, local church is all kind of things when its not gathering. We ourselves have picked the slogan &quot;Gathering, Growing and Going Out&quot; to describe us. (Not unique). 
 
But, when we gather, it is different isn&#039;t it? So, from the article: 
 
Loving one another &#8211; yes, sort out your relationship with your bro and sis. Also, make some fellowship time possible, and encourage the growth of intimacy. 
 
Praying for one another &#8211; Practice corporate meditative AND intercessory prayer. Excellent. Also, teach each other why and how to do this. 
 
Caring for one another &#8211; Encourage intimacy and foster trusting relationships in the church. Also, have a good pastoral program which involves everyone as agents of care. 
 
Trusting each other &#8211; I think we covered that. :) 
 
Challenging one another &#8211; That applies to everyone too. The messages we hear are often challenging; God&#039;s word often delivers a promise and a challenge in the same passage. Also, I&#039;m coming round to the view that I personally would benefit from e.g. an &quot;accountability partnership&quot; with one or two others. 
 
Thanks again folks. 
Peter (GoGod). </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#039;s been a joy to come back and read the comments. </p>
<p>The essence of the article is the &quot;gathering together&quot;. As the body of God, local church is all kind of things when its not gathering. We ourselves have picked the slogan &quot;Gathering, Growing and Going Out&quot; to describe us. (Not unique). </p>
<p>But, when we gather, it is different isn&#039;t it? So, from the article: </p>
<p>Loving one another &ndash; yes, sort out your relationship with your bro and sis. Also, make some fellowship time possible, and encourage the growth of intimacy. </p>
<p>Praying for one another &ndash; Practice corporate meditative AND intercessory prayer. Excellent. Also, teach each other why and how to do this. </p>
<p>Caring for one another &ndash; Encourage intimacy and foster trusting relationships in the church. Also, have a good pastoral program which involves everyone as agents of care. </p>
<p>Trusting each other &ndash; I think we covered that. <img src='http://churchethos.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Challenging one another &ndash; That applies to everyone too. The messages we hear are often challenging; God&#039;s word often delivers a promise and a challenge in the same passage. Also, I&#039;m coming round to the view that I personally would benefit from e.g. an &quot;accountability partnership&quot; with one or two others. </p>
<p>Thanks again folks.<br />
Peter (GoGod).</p>
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		<title>By: Christine</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/a-gathering-church/comment-page-1/#comment-435</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 19:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=548#comment-435</guid>
		<description>On another note, maybe do nothing... Christians seem to spend too much talking AT god in prayer, and not enough listening TO god.   Church is generally too much of a show- great music, great speech, rote prayer.  Not enough people in the pews are mentally/spiritually present. 
 
Must help each other descend into stillness- to get really really settled, enough to sit and listen to the voice of god; get still enough to get past the turmoil and the chaos in your own mind, in your own personality, past your own voice to listen to the deepest voice-  and be really present.  Only from this place can you love, care, truly listen to others, from the deepest most connected part of you. 
 
You can do this by breathing, by closing your eyes, by kneeling with your hands folded like the catholics (that&#039;s a way to close off the senses, to eliminate distraction). 
 
 
How to get people to leave the ego at the door, and arrive?  Teach them to listen before they pray.  Teach them Lectio Divina- read the scripture and then let it sink in, let it speak deeply to the heart.  To get quiet and connected and open, remember who they are, they are god&#039;s children, they are part of god-  then from there they can pray, or from there you can do service, study the scriptures, apply lessons to daily living.  But first: connect. 
 
Jesus did it.  Sit alone and listen and talk with god.  For 40 days, 40 minutes, heck- 4 minutes!  Or check out the christian mystics. or the jesuits.  all kinds of approaches to model on. 
 
The most popular church in Los Angeles starts with 30 minutes of silent meditation, then a short prayer, and then the service begins- 1000 people alone with god at the same time.  Believe me, everyone is fully &quot;in the room&quot; for the rest of the service- which is full of music, participatory sermons, great teaching. 
 
Thanks, Nathan- 
 
CMM </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On another note, maybe do nothing&#8230; Christians seem to spend too much talking AT god in prayer, and not enough listening TO god.   Church is generally too much of a show- great music, great speech, rote prayer.  Not enough people in the pews are mentally/spiritually present. </p>
<p>Must help each other descend into stillness- to get really really settled, enough to sit and listen to the voice of god; get still enough to get past the turmoil and the chaos in your own mind, in your own personality, past your own voice to listen to the deepest voice-  and be really present.  Only from this place can you love, care, truly listen to others, from the deepest most connected part of you. </p>
<p>You can do this by breathing, by closing your eyes, by kneeling with your hands folded like the catholics (that&#039;s a way to close off the senses, to eliminate distraction). </p>
<p>How to get people to leave the ego at the door, and arrive?  Teach them to listen before they pray.  Teach them Lectio Divina- read the scripture and then let it sink in, let it speak deeply to the heart.  To get quiet and connected and open, remember who they are, they are god&#039;s children, they are part of god-  then from there they can pray, or from there you can do service, study the scriptures, apply lessons to daily living.  But first: connect. </p>
<p>Jesus did it.  Sit alone and listen and talk with god.  For 40 days, 40 minutes, heck- 4 minutes!  Or check out the christian mystics. or the jesuits.  all kinds of approaches to model on. </p>
<p>The most popular church in Los Angeles starts with 30 minutes of silent meditation, then a short prayer, and then the service begins- 1000 people alone with god at the same time.  Believe me, everyone is fully &quot;in the room&quot; for the rest of the service- which is full of music, participatory sermons, great teaching. </p>
<p>Thanks, Nathan- </p>
<p>CMM</p>
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		<title>By: Rask Balavoine</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/a-gathering-church/comment-page-1/#comment-434</link>
		<dc:creator>Rask Balavoine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 03:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=548#comment-434</guid>
		<description>Thanks for highlighting the issue - it&#039;s so easy to duck. Let me admit that I&#039;m afraid of close fellowship to an extent and always need to be pushed or drawn into it. It&#039;s risky, and you don&#039;t get to chose your friends - those are good things, but also frightening. The small Church I pastor is the only one on a small public housing project (700 homes) and we try to encourage our members into more-than-Sunday relationships and generally these relationships form quite naturally since everyone lives nearby. We particularly use fellowship meals and social evenings as a tool to aid the development of relationships. In our very conservative Irish society we also have time on Sundays when people can share good or bad news with the rest of the disciples - not common in Irish Churches - and we then pray about what has been shared. It certainly helps being a small gathering (50 attenders of which 20 form the core group). Closer fellowship has also encouraged concern for those outside the group. Acts 2 is a great model - when we adapt it to 21st centuary Ireland. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for highlighting the issue &#8211; it&#039;s so easy to duck. Let me admit that I&#039;m afraid of close fellowship to an extent and always need to be pushed or drawn into it. It&#039;s risky, and you don&#039;t get to chose your friends &#8211; those are good things, but also frightening. The small Church I pastor is the only one on a small public housing project (700 homes) and we try to encourage our members into more-than-Sunday relationships and generally these relationships form quite naturally since everyone lives nearby. We particularly use fellowship meals and social evenings as a tool to aid the development of relationships. In our very conservative Irish society we also have time on Sundays when people can share good or bad news with the rest of the disciples &#8211; not common in Irish Churches &#8211; and we then pray about what has been shared. It certainly helps being a small gathering (50 attenders of which 20 form the core group). Closer fellowship has also encouraged concern for those outside the group. Acts 2 is a great model &#8211; when we adapt it to 21st centuary Ireland.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Creitz</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/a-gathering-church/comment-page-1/#comment-433</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Creitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 23:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=548#comment-433</guid>
		<description>Joel - Great point. I&#039;m sure there are a lot of other aspects of the Christian life that could be explored. I agree, we should be living life together and it should be natural not forced. However, in our culture it does take intentionality so there may have to be some scheduled times here and there. It&#039;s hard to get people to jump from one hour to three hours of weekly commitment much less from one hour to Acts 2 commitment. 
 
My initial question was intended to explore what life would be like when Christians are living life together. I think my &quot;vision for the church&quot; section gives a brief sketch of how Christians might be living interconnectedly and interdependently. I did assume that many Christians are not living life together which is why this post is needed. Ultimately, I&#039;m trying to break down the stereotype that what we do when we gather together is sit passively while someone leads songs and sermons. That can be an important part of the life of a Christian but rather than think that&#039;s all there is, we have to realize there&#039;s so much more. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joel &#8211; Great point. I&#039;m sure there are a lot of other aspects of the Christian life that could be explored. I agree, we should be living life together and it should be natural not forced. However, in our culture it does take intentionality so there may have to be some scheduled times here and there. It&#039;s hard to get people to jump from one hour to three hours of weekly commitment much less from one hour to Acts 2 commitment. </p>
<p>My initial question was intended to explore what life would be like when Christians are living life together. I think my &quot;vision for the church&quot; section gives a brief sketch of how Christians might be living interconnectedly and interdependently. I did assume that many Christians are not living life together which is why this post is needed. Ultimately, I&#039;m trying to break down the stereotype that what we do when we gather together is sit passively while someone leads songs and sermons. That can be an important part of the life of a Christian but rather than think that&#039;s all there is, we have to realize there&#039;s so much more.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/a-gathering-church/comment-page-1/#comment-432</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 22:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=548#comment-432</guid>
		<description>Nathan, again I see you are doing a lot of thinking about all this.  However, I think you missed a really important one . . . living together.  Your initial question even assumes that Christians are not going through life together because your question is asking about what to do when they get together.  If Christians are sharing lives with each other, they don&#039;t need to schedule time to get together because they are seeing each other regularly.  I see the same assumption in Peter&#039;s comment as he is having difficulty trying to get people to meet together. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan, again I see you are doing a lot of thinking about all this.  However, I think you missed a really important one . . . living together.  Your initial question even assumes that Christians are not going through life together because your question is asking about what to do when they get together.  If Christians are sharing lives with each other, they don&#039;t need to schedule time to get together because they are seeing each other regularly.  I see the same assumption in Peter&#039;s comment as he is having difficulty trying to get people to meet together.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Creitz</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/a-gathering-church/comment-page-1/#comment-431</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Creitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 22:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=548#comment-431</guid>
		<description>Peter - Great thoughts and questions. 
 
A couple of responses. First, don&#039;t beat yourself up if you don&#039;t see Acts in your church. For one thing, the circumstances were probably different. They were traveling from all over to be in Jerusalem, had only planned to stay for the week when Jesus entered their hearts. Didn&#039;t want to go home, wanted to learn more about Jesus. People began opening their homes and they were eating meals together daily. 
 
Somehow, I think we should be looking in the middle of the spectrum between Acts 2 and one hour a week on Sundays. We don&#039;t have to be like Acts 2, but we do need to experience authentic fellowship together. 
 
I think the way we reach the Sunday-only crowd is by challenging and encouraging people to live like disciples. When I encourage people to get involved with a small group of Christians and experiment with fellowship I tell them I&#039;m confident it&#039;s what Jesus would be doing if he were here in the flesh. Jesus invested in twelve men and they learned how to live life together. People need to catch that vision. 
 
Finally, when the small group that you have begins seeing transformation, fellowship, trust, and love within the group they will begin sharing the vision for Christian community for you. A lot of people don&#039;t make the time because they don&#039;t see how it&#039;s important. But through personal experience and personal invitations those 6 or 8 people can become 12 to 15 people pretty quickly. 
 
God bless you in your ministry. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter &#8211; Great thoughts and questions. </p>
<p>A couple of responses. First, don&#039;t beat yourself up if you don&#039;t see Acts in your church. For one thing, the circumstances were probably different. They were traveling from all over to be in Jerusalem, had only planned to stay for the week when Jesus entered their hearts. Didn&#039;t want to go home, wanted to learn more about Jesus. People began opening their homes and they were eating meals together daily. </p>
<p>Somehow, I think we should be looking in the middle of the spectrum between Acts 2 and one hour a week on Sundays. We don&#039;t have to be like Acts 2, but we do need to experience authentic fellowship together. </p>
<p>I think the way we reach the Sunday-only crowd is by challenging and encouraging people to live like disciples. When I encourage people to get involved with a small group of Christians and experiment with fellowship I tell them I&#039;m confident it&#039;s what Jesus would be doing if he were here in the flesh. Jesus invested in twelve men and they learned how to live life together. People need to catch that vision. </p>
<p>Finally, when the small group that you have begins seeing transformation, fellowship, trust, and love within the group they will begin sharing the vision for Christian community for you. A lot of people don&#039;t make the time because they don&#039;t see how it&#039;s important. But through personal experience and personal invitations those 6 or 8 people can become 12 to 15 people pretty quickly. </p>
<p>God bless you in your ministry.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter (GoGod)</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/a-gathering-church/comment-page-1/#comment-430</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter (GoGod)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 22:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=548#comment-430</guid>
		<description>OK, you&#039;ve got me thinking &#8211; always a good sign. I help lead a small church which has a single Sunday morning worship service and a midweek evening bible study/prayer meeting. I long for the attributes of the church in the book of Acts. That is my model for an earthly modern fellowship. 
 
Most of our congregation only meet others on Sundays. Why? Busy, busy lives. There&#039;s also a tendency in our societies for people to withdraw from communal commitments. We hate to &quot;join&quot; any group or show signs of commitment. 
 
So... how do we reach the Sunday only people? One response we have is to preach the removal of the sacred/secular divide in order to facilitate the abundant Christian life. It seems vital that we encourage true fellowship &#8211; with Jesus at the centre of course. 
 
For the midweek, we have mooted house-groups or cells as group dynamics for 5-9 people work well, but there is not the will to do this. What we have is a core of only 6-8 people who recognise the need to meet together and I have gone out of my way to ask individuals what will make them come. That has meant an early start and finish, linking meetings with a programme of material, offering lifts, etc. We also spend time praying for the individuals that we miss seeing. I hope that this prayer causes the Holy Spirit to act on their lives and on those who pray so we are responsive and loving. 
 
Thanks again. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, you&#039;ve got me thinking &ndash; always a good sign. I help lead a small church which has a single Sunday morning worship service and a midweek evening bible study/prayer meeting. I long for the attributes of the church in the book of Acts. That is my model for an earthly modern fellowship. </p>
<p>Most of our congregation only meet others on Sundays. Why? Busy, busy lives. There&#039;s also a tendency in our societies for people to withdraw from communal commitments. We hate to &quot;join&quot; any group or show signs of commitment. </p>
<p>So&#8230; how do we reach the Sunday only people? One response we have is to preach the removal of the sacred/secular divide in order to facilitate the abundant Christian life. It seems vital that we encourage true fellowship &ndash; with Jesus at the centre of course. </p>
<p>For the midweek, we have mooted house-groups or cells as group dynamics for 5-9 people work well, but there is not the will to do this. What we have is a core of only 6-8 people who recognise the need to meet together and I have gone out of my way to ask individuals what will make them come. That has meant an early start and finish, linking meetings with a programme of material, offering lifts, etc. We also spend time praying for the individuals that we miss seeing. I hope that this prayer causes the Holy Spirit to act on their lives and on those who pray so we are responsive and loving. </p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>
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