Comments on: Main Street Solutions for the Economy

By: Creitz

Creitz — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 08:21:00 +0000

Thanks for the comment Rob. I think we largely agree on the issues you raise. I should maybe write a post about this because the entire discussion in the comments section has turned into a discussion about "just war". All of that based on one sentence from my actual post. That's kind of funny to me…That said, great comments.

By: Creitz

Creitz — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 08:19:00 +0000

Hey Austin,Great to hear from you. I agree there needs to be more money spent on keeping the peace rather than making peace. Are you in Guam? Wow!

By: Scrape

Scrape — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 04:24:00 +0000

Nathan,I arrived here via your Twitter comment regarding Christians at war. Here are some thoughts, not necessarily in order.(1) Certainly, if much of the defense budget was spent on eradicating poverty, we could have an impact. On the other hand, this assumes everyone does it. However, at least part of why poverty exists is because men seek power over each other. Part of the check on that power is nations that are able to defend themselves as well as other nations. This doesn't justify -all- war, but certainly some.(2) I'm not sure we could say that Jesus is resolutely opposed to violence in all its forms. The Old Testament wars of conquest of Canaan by Israel happened as much at the behest of the Son and the Spirit as the Father. That Jesus has taught us that conquest in the age of the church is by spiritual warfare, doesn't change the fact that He fully intends to execute violent judgment on unbelievers when He consummates His Kingdom in the New Heavens and New Earth.(3) Arguably, Christ doesn't address the worldly political spectrum very much in His worldly ministry, because His kingdom transcends the earthly kingdoms. Inasmuch as the kings of the earth punish evil and promote good, even the worst of them serve's at God's behest. "Turning the other cheek" addresses insult, and in no way eliminates the ability to defend self, or more importantly, others.(4) Had either Jesus or the New Testament authors intended to address Christian participation in war (which is merely an extension of politics by other means, as Clausewitz says), they let plenty of opportunities slide by. (eg John the Baptist addressing soldiers, the Centurion, etc). Of course, I've already said I don't think this was the focus of Jesus or the NT authors, which is why looking at the New Testament literarily (is that a word?) seems kind of ambivalent on this point.(5) Finally, given said apparent ambivalence, I would argue that it's all the more critical that Christians be involved in the military: (a) As ambassadors/evangelists of Christ to other people in the military, and (b) as people who hopefully can provide moral correction/ instruction/ example in an area of society that is, admittedly, open to abuse.In his freely available course on Pastoral and Social Ethics, available at itunes.rts.edu in MP3 format, Dr. John Frame of Reformed Theological Seminary, provides a good analysis of war and punishment (eg death penalty) in his lectures on the sixth commandment.In Christ,Rob

By: austin

austin — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:07:00 +0000

nathan!! i enjoyed a good read and LOVE the section on giving your money away. this is a deeply personal issue of course, but i hate that we as a country aren't the best givers. we have an opertunity as the richest country in history to "be a blessing" to those in desperate need, and i'm afraid we are lacking. as far as the war conversaton and the economics of defense… i would love to see us be more creative agents of peace. and i think as we bring "correction and order" to society i think we should think LONG AND HARD about ways to do this without bombs, guns, and terror. bringing peace and correction and order by bullets at times breads more chaos, retalliation, and discontent. anyway, enough of my two cents. i miss ya man.

By: Creitz

Creitz — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 07:07:00 +0000

Thanks for your comments David. Let me first reply by saying there are lots of defense dollars being spent in ways that I wouldn't spend them as a Christian. I don't agree with everything our government does. I am charged to pray for them, however. As far as the constitution is concerned, defense is the primary reason for the existence of the national government.As far as what we should believe as Christians about the matter is different. I'm not happy with every war we've waged. However, there are times when war is justified. On a local level, police officers fight wars in our communities every day. On a national level there are people who are intent on destroying our country. The decision to enter World War 2 and help bring down Hitler was justified. In the Bible, God appointed judges over his own people and they had to fight to secure their own borders at times. We are called to love our enemies but we are also called to love the defenseless, the orphan, the widow, the poor, etc. Sometimes it is necessary to judge evil and bring correction and order to our society. Correction should be done in a loving way whether it is from a father, a judge, or a president.

By: David

David — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 05:34:00 +0000

Hi Nathan,I really appreciated your fresh and unique perspective here.One thing I struggled with is that as a Christian, you see defense as necessary government spending.In my opinion, Jesus was resolutely opposed to violence in all its forms. The billions and billions of dollars spent on 'defense' destroying other countries could easily eradicate world poverty.David