Comments on: My Top Concerns for the Local Church http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/my-top-concerns-for-the-local-church/ Making Disciples :: Planting Churches Sun, 02 Oct 2011 20:15:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Nathan Creitz http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/my-top-concerns-for-the-local-church/comment-page-1/#comment-376 Nathan Creitz Sat, 16 May 2009 10:44:43 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=529#comment-376 Paul - Good point about how our language betrays our belief that blessing is wealth and health. I've tried to say for years that what if the best thing for us is to go without? What if we need to experience desperation? What if we need to go without a meal? Would that be perceived by us as God removing his hand from us? Or would we see both the good and bad as blessings from God. I also appreciate your point that the blessing is the giving not the having. Receiving is also a blessing but only in lessons of humility and recognizing our dependence on God. Not everyone is "blessed" enough to be able to give. Like Paul, maybe our reminder to ourselves and to others is that we are content in whatever circumstance. If we have nothing and someone gives us bread, that is a blessing of humility and providence. If we have abundance and are able to give, that is the blessing of generosity. Nowhere, however, is there a blessing of indulgence and selfishness and greed and if our money and possessions drive us to those sorts of "virtues" then it would be a blessing indeed for God to take it all away. Paul – Good point about how our language betrays our belief that blessing is wealth and health. I've tried to say for years that what if the best thing for us is to go without? What if we need to experience desperation? What if we need to go without a meal? Would that be perceived by us as God removing his hand from us? Or would we see both the good and bad as blessings from God.

I also appreciate your point that the blessing is the giving not the having. Receiving is also a blessing but only in lessons of humility and recognizing our dependence on God. Not everyone is "blessed" enough to be able to give. Like Paul, maybe our reminder to ourselves and to others is that we are content in whatever circumstance. If we have nothing and someone gives us bread, that is a blessing of humility and providence. If we have abundance and are able to give, that is the blessing of generosity. Nowhere, however, is there a blessing of indulgence and selfishness and greed and if our money and possessions drive us to those sorts of "virtues" then it would be a blessing indeed for God to take it all away.

]]> By: Paul http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/my-top-concerns-for-the-local-church/comment-page-1/#comment-375 Paul Thu, 14 May 2009 09:32:05 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=529#comment-375 I have been considering lately, not as being of the highest importance per se, but important none-the-less that we have come to think that wealth is a "blessing". This relates to your fifth point, but it occurred to me lately that even my pastor will put the sentences "We live in a country of blessing." and "We live in a country of abundance." together as if they were more or less synonymous. I don't think he is a health and wealth preacher, but his language betrays him. I looked up that nowhere in the NT are the words blessing, blessed, or bless used to refer to material possessions except in some translations which render Rom 15:27 to say "material blessings" where the word blessings is introduced in translation (check me on that). Point being the NT doesn't confuse the two. More than that, Jesus said blessed are the poor, do not store up treasures for yourselves on earth, and sell your possessions and give them to the poor and come and follow me. James went so far as to say the poor have high place in the Kingdom and the rich have low position there. My point is our language betrays us (when trying to justify how much money we make, we say, "well God has really blessed me") and we don't even realize it. I think that we don't truly believe the NT that poverty is a blessing and riches more a curse. I will make one quick qualifying statement that Paul did say we should work to earn money that we might share with those in need. I would thus argue that the blessing here is the giving, not the having, and thus this is a blessing which money might afford (pun intended), but is not inherent to riches. I have been considering lately, not as being of the highest importance per se, but important none-the-less that we have come to think that wealth is a "blessing". This relates to your fifth point, but it occurred to me lately that even my pastor will put the sentences "We live in a country of blessing." and "We live in a country of abundance." together as if they were more or less synonymous. I don't think he is a health and wealth preacher, but his language betrays him.

I looked up that nowhere in the NT are the words blessing, blessed, or bless used to refer to material possessions except in some translations which render Rom 15:27 to say "material blessings" where the word blessings is introduced in translation (check me on that). Point being the NT doesn't confuse the two.

More than that, Jesus said blessed are the poor, do not store up treasures for yourselves on earth, and sell your possessions and give them to the poor and come and follow me. James went so far as to say the poor have high place in the Kingdom and the rich have low position there.

My point is our language betrays us (when trying to justify how much money we make, we say, "well God has really blessed me") and we don't even realize it. I think that we don't truly believe the NT that poverty is a blessing and riches more a curse.

I will make one quick qualifying statement that Paul did say we should work to earn money that we might share with those in need. I would thus argue that the blessing here is the giving, not the having, and thus this is a blessing which money might afford (pun intended), but is not inherent to riches.

]]> By: apostle77 http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/my-top-concerns-for-the-local-church/comment-page-1/#comment-374 apostle77 Sun, 26 Apr 2009 21:07:54 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=529#comment-374 Good points, may we wake up OH LORD Good points, may we wake up OH LORD

]]> By: Don http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/my-top-concerns-for-the-local-church/comment-page-1/#comment-373 Don Thu, 23 Apr 2009 08:39:45 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=529#comment-373 I agree with every point, Nathan. However, the way the economy is going I would have to say that a lot more people nowadays are focused on point #5. You can kind of see that in the way tithing has gone across the country. People are losing the faith in the fact that God WILL and DOES provide. I agree with every point, Nathan. However, the way the economy is going I would have to say that a lot more people nowadays are focused on point #5. You can kind of see that in the way tithing has gone across the country. People are losing the faith in the fact that God WILL and DOES provide.

]]> By: Lia http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/my-top-concerns-for-the-local-church/comment-page-1/#comment-372 Lia Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:17:11 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=529#comment-372 I agree with these, for sure. However, I do think we need to be careful to not see these as just modern problems, or reminisce about long-gone days we weren't even alive for. Every generation has their major stumbling blocks. Perhaps ours is our disconnection from everything outside of our own, small, life (disconnection from our community, our God, the earth he gave us, our own spirit etc). I've been thinking a lot about this lately, and I think it may be one cause of these 'cold' hearts to God and the body, and our disinterest in community and people. I know it is for me. I agree with these, for sure. However, I do think we need to be careful to not see these as just modern problems, or reminisce about long-gone days we weren't even alive for. Every generation has their major stumbling blocks.

Perhaps ours is our disconnection from everything outside of our own, small, life (disconnection from our community, our God, the earth he gave us, our own spirit etc). I've been thinking a lot about this lately, and I think it may be one cause of these 'cold' hearts to God and the body, and our disinterest in community and people. I know it is for me.

]]> By: Nathan Creitz http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/my-top-concerns-for-the-local-church/comment-page-1/#comment-371 Nathan Creitz Fri, 10 Apr 2009 11:11:30 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=529#comment-371 bigkafka - I don't necessarily have an order except that they sort of go from broad to specific. The more specific they get, probably the more important they are. I would probably agree that the lack of disciple-making is my biggest concern. bigkafka – I don't necessarily have an order except that they sort of go from broad to specific. The more specific they get, probably the more important they are. I would probably agree that the lack of disciple-making is my biggest concern.

]]> By: bigkafka http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/my-top-concerns-for-the-local-church/comment-page-1/#comment-370 bigkafka Wed, 08 Apr 2009 16:14:55 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=529#comment-370 I really like the way you put it. But somehow, I wonder if you have an "order" in your top 7 here. I feel like (7) is the most critical one, followed by (6) -- then (1), (2), (3) , (4) and (5) are just the effect of 'cold love' -- which I feel is what God gives as a "reward" (negative reward) for (6) and (7)... Very good list. I really like the way you put it.
But somehow, I wonder if you have an "order" in your top 7 here.
I feel like (7) is the most critical one, followed by (6) — then (1), (2), (3) , (4) and (5) are just the effect of 'cold love' — which I feel is what God gives as a "reward" (negative reward) for (6) and (7)…

Very good list.

]]> By: John http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/my-top-concerns-for-the-local-church/comment-page-1/#comment-369 John Wed, 08 Apr 2009 09:40:19 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=529#comment-369 I agree with every point. Why don't you take the gloves off next time and let us have it. I agree with every point. Why don't you take the gloves off next time and let us have it.

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