Comments on: Why Is A Sermon Still Important? http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/ Making Disciples :: Planting Churches Sun, 02 Oct 2011 20:15:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Jake Peterson http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/comment-page-1/#comment-219 Jake Peterson Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:57:57 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/2008/10/08/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/#comment-219 Thanks for this post! What comes to my mind is what those who heard Jesus teach/preach said upon hearing him. Jesus approach was distinct from the current "style" of the rabbis and teachers of the day. I agree with you that there is an exertion of authority in preaching... not our own authority but the application of the authority of the Word of God to those who hear. Matthew 7:29 "for he was teaching them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes." Mark 1:22 Luke 4:32 John 7:17-18; John 7:46 Soli Deo Gloria! Thanks for this post!

What comes to my mind is what those who heard Jesus teach/preach said upon hearing him. Jesus approach was distinct from the current "style" of the rabbis and teachers of the day. I agree with you that there is an exertion of authority in preaching… not our own authority but the application of the authority of the Word of God to those who hear.

Matthew 7:29 "for he was teaching them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes."

Mark 1:22
Luke 4:32
John 7:17-18; John 7:46

Soli Deo Gloria!

]]> By: Jeremy Hoover http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/comment-page-1/#comment-218 Jeremy Hoover Fri, 22 May 2009 13:12:26 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/2008/10/08/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/#comment-218 Great point, Nathan. I see what you're saying and I agree--studying God's word is never pointless. I guess I should clarify my point to say: I'm concerned about the pastors who hide behind their obligation to study to avoid people while promoting the "importance" of what they do on Sunday morning. I can see where the "life of study" can overflow into the people we serve, whether it's during a sermon, during a coffeehouse discussion, in a phone conversation, or in a casual conversation when we bump into each other! I guess I'm saying, the life of study *and sharing of that study* is definitely important, but not necessarily as the main event on Sunday. Great point, Nathan. I see what you're saying and I agree–studying God's word is never pointless. I guess I should clarify my point to say: I'm concerned about the pastors who hide behind their obligation to study to avoid people while promoting the "importance" of what they do on Sunday morning.

I can see where the "life of study" can overflow into the people we serve, whether it's during a sermon, during a coffeehouse discussion, in a phone conversation, or in a casual conversation when we bump into each other!

I guess I'm saying, the life of study *and sharing of that study* is definitely important, but not necessarily as the main event on Sunday.

]]> By: Nathan Creitz http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/comment-page-1/#comment-217 Nathan Creitz Fri, 22 May 2009 12:39:53 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/2008/10/08/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/#comment-217 Hey Jeremy - I like your thinking. We can definitely rethink all of our traditions. Do we need to stand, sing, sit, listen to a sermon, stand back up, sing another song, pray, dismiss? Is that worship? It can be worshipful. Like I said to BJones, the "sermon" doesn't just have to happen on Sunday morning, but a sermon is definitely still useful to the leadership and discipleship of the local church. As to the time it takes to prepare. Again, read back through some of my responses to some of the commenters here. I've sort of addressed this already but let me put a new spin on it and make this personal. When I study, I spend a lot of time praying. I spend a lot of time wrestling with the word choices of the author. I spend a lot of time trying to determine their meaning in their context and how I might convey that same meaning to my context. I spend a lot of time in meditation. The preparation for the sermon is personally transforming and if I spent all that time (I try and spend 12 - 15 hours over a period of a couple of weeks) and shared my insights with no one, it would have been worth it. If I can distill my 15 hours of study down to a 30 minute exhortation to a large gathering of Jesus' disciples, so much the better! In fact, if I spent all that time learning for myself and God began forming a message in my heart and I didn't say it, I would be cheating my church family from something that God wants me to share with them. Can I say it to them personally? in small groups? Sure, but I'm sharing that message with more people when we are all gathered together. If we did everything differently: Met once a month as a large group. Did away with singing or added songs to the mix. Spent the whole time in prayer, etc. I would still believe it necessary to consistently share God's Word in something like a sermon to God's people. Hey Jeremy – I like your thinking. We can definitely rethink all of our traditions. Do we need to stand, sing, sit, listen to a sermon, stand back up, sing another song, pray, dismiss? Is that worship? It can be worshipful. Like I said to BJones, the "sermon" doesn't just have to happen on Sunday morning, but a sermon is definitely still useful to the leadership and discipleship of the local church.

As to the time it takes to prepare. Again, read back through some of my responses to some of the commenters here. I've sort of addressed this already but let me put a new spin on it and make this personal. When I study, I spend a lot of time praying. I spend a lot of time wrestling with the word choices of the author. I spend a lot of time trying to determine their meaning in their context and how I might convey that same meaning to my context. I spend a lot of time in meditation. The preparation for the sermon is personally transforming and if I spent all that time (I try and spend 12 – 15 hours over a period of a couple of weeks) and shared my insights with no one, it would have been worth it. If I can distill my 15 hours of study down to a 30 minute exhortation to a large gathering of Jesus' disciples, so much the better! In fact, if I spent all that time learning for myself and God began forming a message in my heart and I didn't say it, I would be cheating my church family from something that God wants me to share with them. Can I say it to them personally? in small groups? Sure, but I'm sharing that message with more people when we are all gathered together. If we did everything differently: Met once a month as a large group. Did away with singing or added songs to the mix. Spent the whole time in prayer, etc. I would still believe it necessary to consistently share God's Word in something like a sermon to God's people.

]]> By: Nathan Creitz http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/comment-page-1/#comment-216 Nathan Creitz Fri, 22 May 2009 12:30:15 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/2008/10/08/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/#comment-216 Thanks for your thoughts BJones. A sermon is good if it is speaking the truth and motivates people to act. I don't think a sermon only happens on Sunday morning from a pastor. I think a pastor has a unique calling to share vision, exhort, and teach and has a unique platform from which to do that. He can do that one on one in a home, in a counseling session, etc. but once a week he has the potential of sharing with everyone in his congregation a word from the Lord. Is it really a word from the Lord? If it is, then we shouldn't discount sermons simply because not all sermons or preachers are effective. Is it always the preachers fault if it isn't effective? Could it at times also be the hard hearts of the listeners? The question we should be asking is what makes a sermon ineffective, and not, should we get rid of sermons (not saying you are suggesting that). I agree that living life together with other believers is influential, but had it not been for the preaching and teaching of Paul and Peter and others there wouldn't even be a church today. Did they do that one-on-one? in small groups? Sure, Acts and the letters of Paul are full of personal references to relationships, etc. But a lot of time, they stood in front of a large gathering like the whole body of believers or Jews in the temple or Gentiles in the marketplace. Sometimes those were evangelistic in nature, at other times they were casting vision or encouraging the church in some way. The point is, there is great benefit to the sermon, I see it throughout the NT, I have personally been called by God to deliver them, and they are still very effective today. On the other hand, I see not one reason why sermons should be thrown out. Maybe there are some who are preaching and haven't experienced God's call on their lives to do so. Maybe there are some who could use some discipling from a more experienced pastor. Maybe there are some listeners who need to expect God to speak through His Word and His messenger. But the sermon is a vital tool in the overall discipleship toolbox that God still uses to train and equip the church. Thanks for your thoughts BJones. A sermon is good if it is speaking the truth and motivates people to act. I don't think a sermon only happens on Sunday morning from a pastor. I think a pastor has a unique calling to share vision, exhort, and teach and has a unique platform from which to do that. He can do that one on one in a home, in a counseling session, etc. but once a week he has the potential of sharing with everyone in his congregation a word from the Lord. Is it really a word from the Lord? If it is, then we shouldn't discount sermons simply because not all sermons or preachers are effective. Is it always the preachers fault if it isn't effective? Could it at times also be the hard hearts of the listeners? The question we should be asking is what makes a sermon ineffective, and not, should we get rid of sermons (not saying you are suggesting that).

I agree that living life together with other believers is influential, but had it not been for the preaching and teaching of Paul and Peter and others there wouldn't even be a church today. Did they do that one-on-one? in small groups? Sure, Acts and the letters of Paul are full of personal references to relationships, etc. But a lot of time, they stood in front of a large gathering like the whole body of believers or Jews in the temple or Gentiles in the marketplace. Sometimes those were evangelistic in nature, at other times they were casting vision or encouraging the church in some way. The point is, there is great benefit to the sermon, I see it throughout the NT, I have personally been called by God to deliver them, and they are still very effective today. On the other hand, I see not one reason why sermons should be thrown out. Maybe there are some who are preaching and haven't experienced God's call on their lives to do so. Maybe there are some who could use some discipling from a more experienced pastor. Maybe there are some listeners who need to expect God to speak through His Word and His messenger. But the sermon is a vital tool in the overall discipleship toolbox that God still uses to train and equip the church.

]]> By: Nathan Creitz http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/comment-page-1/#comment-215 Nathan Creitz Fri, 22 May 2009 12:18:37 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/2008/10/08/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/#comment-215 Aaron - Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate your perspective and I love the quote from McManus too. I would push back a wee bit on it however. I DO want to feed people. Jesus gave Peter three commands after asking him three times if he loved him. "Feed my sheep" Feed my sheep" "Feed my sheep". All of us have daily access to God's Word for ourselves. We can read and study and meditate to our hearts content. Rarely, though, do we get a chance to spend time in the historical and literary context, in the original languages, in the commentaries, and on our faces asking God to give us a word for His flock. All of us can find God's word to us personally, but what about God's word to us collectively as the Body? The pastor is there to teach "spiritual things to spiritual people". He can give them a "meal" to feast on that they wouldn't have otherwise prepared for themselves. In life, we need about three meals a day. The pastor isn't going to give you all of those meals. But he can give you a good one and then send you out with a hefty doggie bag full of leftovers. God has something to say to His church and I believe a pastor stands in the gap and encourages and exhorts and teaches and prophecies. If I could change McManus' quote a bit I would say, "I want to make people hungry in the introduction, and then serve them a healthy meal from God's Word and show them how to burn it off throughout the week." Aaron – Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate your perspective and I love the quote from McManus too. I would push back a wee bit on it however. I DO want to feed people. Jesus gave Peter three commands after asking him three times if he loved him. "Feed my sheep" Feed my sheep" "Feed my sheep". All of us have daily access to God's Word for ourselves. We can read and study and meditate to our hearts content. Rarely, though, do we get a chance to spend time in the historical and literary context, in the original languages, in the commentaries, and on our faces asking God to give us a word for His flock. All of us can find God's word to us personally, but what about God's word to us collectively as the Body? The pastor is there to teach "spiritual things to spiritual people". He can give them a "meal" to feast on that they wouldn't have otherwise prepared for themselves. In life, we need about three meals a day. The pastor isn't going to give you all of those meals. But he can give you a good one and then send you out with a hefty doggie bag full of leftovers. God has something to say to His church and I believe a pastor stands in the gap and encourages and exhorts and teaches and prophecies.

If I could change McManus' quote a bit I would say, "I want to make people hungry in the introduction, and then serve them a healthy meal from God's Word and show them how to burn it off throughout the week."

]]> By: Jeremy Hoover http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/comment-page-1/#comment-214 Jeremy Hoover Tue, 19 May 2009 13:11:06 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/2008/10/08/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/#comment-214 I think "preaching" is necessary when understood contextually as the transmission of truth through teaching. The goal of preaching/teaching is to produce disciples. This may happen when a pastor preaches a sermon during the worship service, when a parent tells their child a bible story, or when an act of service is accompanied by a brief explanation of why that act was done. Truth may taught in a small group or in a discussion at a coffee shop. My personal view is that the "worship service" is overblown. Yes, Christians need to gather together to worship God and encourage each other. But I'm not convinced (and I am a pastor, too) that we need a structured meeting with my 30 minute sermon as the main event. Not to mention the amount of time preparation for this sermon takes from ministry among the people! Great discussion, Nathan! I think "preaching" is necessary when understood contextually as the transmission of truth through teaching. The goal of preaching/teaching is to produce disciples. This may happen when a pastor preaches a sermon during the worship service, when a parent tells their child a bible story, or when an act of service is accompanied by a brief explanation of why that act was done. Truth may taught in a small group or in a discussion at a coffee shop.

My personal view is that the "worship service" is overblown. Yes, Christians need to gather together to worship God and encourage each other. But I'm not convinced (and I am a pastor, too) that we need a structured meeting with my 30 minute sermon as the main event. Not to mention the amount of time preparation for this sermon takes from ministry among the people!

Great discussion, Nathan!

]]> By: bjonesnboston http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/comment-page-1/#comment-213 bjonesnboston Wed, 15 Oct 2008 17:36:00 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/2008/10/08/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/#comment-213 First off, let me say that I am not anti-preaching/sermons. But I do want to put my thoughts down here in response to this post.Should preaching be defined simply as boldly proclaiming the truth? And why do we think of preaching solely as being done in a sermon format from a pulpit to a congregation?I think that it is quite strong to say that someone who is not for preaching either a) hasn't heard a good one or b) hasn't given a good one. This is a big statement that I think needs clarified and really thought through. What makes a particular sermon good? And to whom is it good? And why would that person describe a sermon as good (or bad for that matter)? Also, can we think of preaching outside the idea of a service? Why is the service central to Christianity?It seems to me that we often determine preaching is good from an intellectual perspective and if a service is good from a quality perspective. Intellectually we may say, oh that was good b/c I hadn't thought of that before. From a quality perspective, we may think that it was good b/c people were engaged. Maybe the speaker can feel confident in what he said. Maybe people are thinking more deeply & applying the message (bearing fruit?). Maybe the worship leader and the preacher were on the same page.I think that we have a pretty good sample size to see how effective preaching has been in the past. We can look at the church in America and see how many Christians are reproducing spiritual fruit (fruit that will last?) Can it be argued as effective? Sure, can it be argued as ineffective? Absolutely.Can I remember some sermons and have some sermons impacted me? Yes, but I have a much deeper walk with Jesus, b/c of friends who have sacrificed their lives, time, energy for me to invest spiritual truths into my life and help me (personally) obey the truths of Scripture. I think our culture has seen the effects of our idea of preaching. I think that we are still learning the effects of focused discipleship.What would many Christians do if tomorrow there were no churches (buildings) and we could not have a service (as we know it)? How would Christianity survive?...through discipleship, life on life teaching/proclaiming truth. And maybe the question is not should we or shouldn't we preach? But what is the most effective? And maybe Jesus didn't separate preaching from discipleship as this argument is suggesting. Maybe the teaching of compartmentalization of Christianity is the problem…but that is another long post…but definitely relevant to this topic. First off, let me say that I am not anti-preaching/sermons. But I do want to put my thoughts down here in response to this post.Should preaching be defined simply as boldly proclaiming the truth? And why do we think of preaching solely as being done in a sermon format from a pulpit to a congregation?I think that it is quite strong to say that someone who is not for preaching either a) hasn't heard a good one or b) hasn't given a good one. This is a big statement that I think needs clarified and really thought through. What makes a particular sermon good? And to whom is it good? And why would that person describe a sermon as good (or bad for that matter)? Also, can we think of preaching outside the idea of a service? Why is the service central to Christianity?It seems to me that we often determine preaching is good from an intellectual perspective and if a service is good from a quality perspective. Intellectually we may say, oh that was good b/c I hadn't thought of that before. From a quality perspective, we may think that it was good b/c people were engaged. Maybe the speaker can feel confident in what he said. Maybe people are thinking more deeply & applying the message (bearing fruit?). Maybe the worship leader and the preacher were on the same page.I think that we have a pretty good sample size to see how effective preaching has been in the past. We can look at the church in America and see how many Christians are reproducing spiritual fruit (fruit that will last?) Can it be argued as effective? Sure, can it be argued as ineffective? Absolutely.Can I remember some sermons and have some sermons impacted me? Yes, but I have a much deeper walk with Jesus, b/c of friends who have sacrificed their lives, time, energy for me to invest spiritual truths into my life and help me (personally) obey the truths of Scripture. I think our culture has seen the effects of our idea of preaching. I think that we are still learning the effects of focused discipleship.What would many Christians do if tomorrow there were no churches (buildings) and we could not have a service (as we know it)? How would Christianity survive?…through discipleship, life on life teaching/proclaiming truth. And maybe the question is not should we or shouldn't we preach? But what is the most effective? And maybe Jesus didn't separate preaching from discipleship as this argument is suggesting. Maybe the teaching of compartmentalization of Christianity is the problem…but that is another long post…but definitely relevant to this topic.

]]> By: Aaron L http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/comment-page-1/#comment-212 Aaron L Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:11:00 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/2008/10/08/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/#comment-212 Hey Nathan, just wanted to offer a couple thoughts and also to say that I am glad I happened upon your blog. I appreciate your heart and have enjoyed the goods so far. As a number people have said or implied, style is more important that most idealists want to admit. Assuming too much authority can quickly get today's communicators into trouble. Start shouting or asserting truth without earning your voice or connecting with your audience and you're done. They will be playing with their phones or dreaming of punching you in the skull before you can say, "If you have your bibles, turn with me to..." The reality is that truth does NOT speak for itself! WE are the ones called to represent that truth and share it with an increasingly skeptical word. And there are better ways of doing that than others. I think we could all learn a lot from Paul who became whatever he needed to become to relate the gospel with everyone possible.I agree with whoever said how much they appreciated how their pastor exemplifies humility in his teaching. I think this should be the posture of every teacher. That doesn't mean we can't have conviction or passion, but is really about an internal posture than anything else. Telling someone to do something (as with authority) is much different than asking something of them. Lastly, I love this quote about preaching by Erwin McManus: "I don't want to feed people. I want to make them hungry." I wish more teachers went about preaching this way. Hey Nathan, just wanted to offer a couple thoughts and also to say that I am glad I happened upon your blog. I appreciate your heart and have enjoyed the goods so far. As a number people have said or implied, style is more important that most idealists want to admit. Assuming too much authority can quickly get today's communicators into trouble. Start shouting or asserting truth without earning your voice or connecting with your audience and you're done. They will be playing with their phones or dreaming of punching you in the skull before you can say, "If you have your bibles, turn with me to…" The reality is that truth does NOT speak for itself! WE are the ones called to represent that truth and share it with an increasingly skeptical word. And there are better ways of doing that than others. I think we could all learn a lot from Paul who became whatever he needed to become to relate the gospel with everyone possible.I agree with whoever said how much they appreciated how their pastor exemplifies humility in his teaching. I think this should be the posture of every teacher. That doesn't mean we can't have conviction or passion, but is really about an internal posture than anything else. Telling someone to do something (as with authority) is much different than asking something of them. Lastly, I love this quote about preaching by Erwin McManus: "I don't want to feed people. I want to make them hungry." I wish more teachers went about preaching this way.

]]> By: Creitz http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/comment-page-1/#comment-211 Creitz Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:07:00 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/2008/10/08/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/#comment-211 Thanks for the clarification bigkafka. I see your questions and I'm already planning a new post to incorporate some of the issues that are being raised.I've been preaching and thinking about preaching for more than 10 years now so it certainly isn't a new issue for me personally, but more and more the sermon is under attack and I want to make sure my thinking is sound biblically and culturally relevant. I'm not coming to any new conclusions, but I am certainly confirming some of my convictions. Again, I will be posting about this again soon and I hope to be more articulate.In short, a sermon can be prophetic or evangelistic. A sermon is taking a Biblical concept or idea, understanding the original context and culture and communicating how that original idea still applies today. This is my simplistic answer to the question of what is a sermon, I will make sure I have a more developed answer in the next post on the subject. Meanwhile, if anyone wants to offer their thought on what a sermon ought to be, please feel free to do so.To continue this discussion: What is a sermon? and Is it still necessary today? Thanks for the clarification bigkafka. I see your questions and I'm already planning a new post to incorporate some of the issues that are being raised.I've been preaching and thinking about preaching for more than 10 years now so it certainly isn't a new issue for me personally, but more and more the sermon is under attack and I want to make sure my thinking is sound biblically and culturally relevant. I'm not coming to any new conclusions, but I am certainly confirming some of my convictions. Again, I will be posting about this again soon and I hope to be more articulate.In short, a sermon can be prophetic or evangelistic. A sermon is taking a Biblical concept or idea, understanding the original context and culture and communicating how that original idea still applies today. This is my simplistic answer to the question of what is a sermon, I will make sure I have a more developed answer in the next post on the subject. Meanwhile, if anyone wants to offer their thought on what a sermon ought to be, please feel free to do so.To continue this discussion: What is a sermon? and Is it still necessary today?

]]> By: bigkafka http://churchethos.com/christian-thought/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/comment-page-1/#comment-210 bigkafka Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:37:00 +0000 http://churchethos.wordpress.com/2008/10/08/why-is-a-sermon-still-important/#comment-210 answering the other question: about ticking me off.I didn't mean "litterally me", but maybe my very-free-spirited friends who can't be bothered with "authority" in their lives.Jesus wants to make wolves into sheep, so a style of treating people like sheep doesn't work when they are still wolves.God has authority because he is God.We have been delegated authority.But in the end, the way to influence people is not to carry a business card with a big title on it. This is by exhibiting God-given attributes that make people think "something big is behind this man".I'm sure you agree - I guess the way you wrote the post didn't have room for these consideration - hence my comments.... answering the other question: about ticking me off.I didn't mean "litterally me", but maybe my very-free-spirited friends who can't be bothered with "authority" in their lives.Jesus wants to make wolves into sheep, so a style of treating people like sheep doesn't work when they are still wolves.God has authority because he is God.We have been delegated authority.But in the end, the way to influence people is not to carry a business card with a big title on it. This is by exhibiting God-given attributes that make people think "something big is behind this man".I'm sure you agree – I guess the way you wrote the post didn't have room for these consideration – hence my comments….

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