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	<title>Comments on: Tithing Ethos: The Habit of Giving in the Church</title>
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	<description>Making Disciples :: Planting Churches</description>
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		<title>By: Nathan Creitz</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/church-reform/tithing-ethos/comment-page-1/#comment-295</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Creitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 15:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=301#comment-295</guid>
		<description>Thanks Austin, I agree with you. I wish there were more accountability when it comes to our finances but I think it&#039;s going to take people who are committed to Jesus to allow people to hold them accountable. This is an important topic and one that rarely gets discussed. We&#039;ve got to be willing to be vulnerable to a mentor/disicpler for our own maturity in the way we spend our money. Thanks again for your insight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Austin, I agree with you. I wish there were more accountability when it comes to our finances but I think it&#8217;s going to take people who are committed to Jesus to allow people to hold them accountable. This is an important topic and one that rarely gets discussed. We&#8217;ve got to be willing to be vulnerable to a mentor/disicpler for our own maturity in the way we spend our money. Thanks again for your insight.</p>
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		<title>By: Austin</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/church-reform/tithing-ethos/comment-page-1/#comment-294</link>
		<dc:creator>Austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 04:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=301#comment-294</guid>
		<description>I think that tithing is a difficult subject because finances are not transparent in any level of our culture.  Hence, it&#039;s hard to get any real accountability on it without totally exposing your personal information.  It&#039;s also difficult to give when you are looking at bills that have to be paid.  I don&#039;t necessarily believe in a prosperity gospel where God is going to pay our bills.  People that believe in Him and love Him starve every day and die.  However, tithing is an act of faith and should be a fruit of our spiritual growth.  The 10% can be used as a jumping off point, which is further developed through seeking Jesus through prayer.  I agree that it is a link to being a disciple of Jesus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that tithing is a difficult subject because finances are not transparent in any level of our culture.  Hence, it&#8217;s hard to get any real accountability on it without totally exposing your personal information.  It&#8217;s also difficult to give when you are looking at bills that have to be paid.  I don&#8217;t necessarily believe in a prosperity gospel where God is going to pay our bills.  People that believe in Him and love Him starve every day and die.  However, tithing is an act of faith and should be a fruit of our spiritual growth.  The 10% can be used as a jumping off point, which is further developed through seeking Jesus through prayer.  I agree that it is a link to being a disciple of Jesus.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Creitz</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/church-reform/tithing-ethos/comment-page-1/#comment-293</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Creitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=301#comment-293</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments!

Brad - I appreciate your kind words.

Helen - I&#039;m glad you picked up on my subtle distinction between giving and tithing in the post. We should certainly give and if we decide to give 10% that&#039;s wonderful. Giving sacrificially is what the widow did when she gave her last penny when everyone else was giving out of their abundance. That&#039;s the kind of attitude we need.

Jeremy, I only glanced through the article you linked to but what I saw looked thorough and convincing. I appreciate the link.

Russell - What you&#039;ve written ought to be in a book ;) Seriously, you make a lot of great points. 15 is probably the most essential and rather than all the proofs against a &quot;tithe&quot; I would love to see some of your thoughts on why giving. To be quite honest, though I think we could steer clear of tithing language, I actually think the radical call to follow Christ will cost us more than a measly 10%. Not necessarily to or through the Church but joyfully giving to others is one of the calls of discipleship. Thanks for taking the time for this informative comment and I glanced at the link to your book and find that to be very interesting. Let me know if you would like for me to review your book on this blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments!</p>
<p>Brad &#8211; I appreciate your kind words.</p>
<p>Helen &#8211; I&#8217;m glad you picked up on my subtle distinction between giving and tithing in the post. We should certainly give and if we decide to give 10% that&#8217;s wonderful. Giving sacrificially is what the widow did when she gave her last penny when everyone else was giving out of their abundance. That&#8217;s the kind of attitude we need.</p>
<p>Jeremy, I only glanced through the article you linked to but what I saw looked thorough and convincing. I appreciate the link.</p>
<p>Russell &#8211; What you&#8217;ve written ought to be in a book <img src='http://churchethos.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  Seriously, you make a lot of great points. 15 is probably the most essential and rather than all the proofs against a &#8220;tithe&#8221; I would love to see some of your thoughts on why giving. To be quite honest, though I think we could steer clear of tithing language, I actually think the radical call to follow Christ will cost us more than a measly 10%. Not necessarily to or through the Church but joyfully giving to others is one of the calls of discipleship. Thanks for taking the time for this informative comment and I glanced at the link to your book and find that to be very interesting. Let me know if you would like for me to review your book on this blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell Earl Kelly, PHD</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/church-reform/tithing-ethos/comment-page-1/#comment-292</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Earl Kelly, PHD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=301#comment-292</guid>
		<description>Good article. Thanks.\\1. Post-Calvary Christian giving principles in Second Corinthians are superior to tithing. (1) Giving is a &quot;grace.” (2) Give yourself to God first. (3) Give yourself to knowing God’s will. (4) Give in response to Christ’s gift. (5) Give out of a sincere desire. (6) Do not give because of any commandment (8:8, 10; 9:7). (7) Give beyond your ability. (8) Give to produce equality. (9) Give joyfully (8:2). (10) Give because you are growing spiritually. (11) Give to continue growing spiritually. (12) Give because you are hearing the gospel preached.

2.  Abraham&#039;s tithed in Genesis 14 in obedience to pagan tradition. (1) He did not &quot;freely&quot; give. (2) His was NOT a holy tithe from God’s holy land by God’s holy people under God’s holy Covenant. (3) His was only from pagan spoils of war required in many nations. (4) In Num. 31, God required 1% of spoils. (5) His tithe to his priest-king was a one-time event. (6) Not from his personal property. (7) Kept nothing for himself. (8) Is not quoted to endorse tithing. (9) Most commentaries explain 14:21 as pagan Arab tradition, it is contradictory to explain the 90% of 14:21 as pagan, while insisting the 10% of 14:20 was obedience to God’s will. (10) If Abraham were an example for Christians to give 10%, he should also be an example for Christians to give the other 90% to Satan, or to the king of Sodom! (11) As priests, neither Abraham nor Jacob had a Levitical priesthood to support; they probably left food for the poor at their altars.

3.  Although money was common and essential for worship for over 1500 years, biblical tithes were always only food increased by God from inside Israel (Lev. 27:30, 32; see site for all 16 texts).

4.  Since only farmers and herdsmen tithed, there was no minimum standard requirement for most.  Tradesmen such as carpenters (Jesus), Peter (fishermen) and Paul (tentmakers) did not qualify as tithe-payers. The poor and Gentiles did not tithe.

5.  Tithing was only commanded to national Israel under the terms of the Old Covenant. Tithing was never commanded to the Church after Calvary (Ex 19:5-6; Lev 27:34; Mal 4:4; Mt 23:23 matters of the law).

6.  Those who received the first whole tithe did not minister atonement (Num. 18:21-24; Neh10:37b). Priests only received 1% (a tenth of the tithe) (Num 18:25-28; Neh 10:38).

7. In exchange for receiving tithes, both Levites and priests forfeited all rights to permanent land inheritance inside Israel (Num. 18:20-26).

8.  Firstfruits are not the same as tithes. Firstfruits were a very small token offering (Deu 26:1-4; Neh 10:35-37; Num 18:13-17). Tithes were the tenth and not the best; only 1% of the tithes included the best (Lev. 27:32, 33).

9.  There were 4 O.T. tithes: (1) Government taxes (1 Sam 8:14-17). (2) Levitical (Num. 18:21-28; Neh. 10:37-39). (3) Festival (Deu 12:1-19; 14:22-26). (3) Poor tithe every 3rd year (Deu 14:28-29; 26:12-13).

10.  Tithes were often taxes used to support Levite [politicians (1 Chron, chap 23 to 26; esp 23:2-5; 26:29-32; 27:5). Tithes never supported mission work (Ex 23:32; Heb 7:12-18).

11.  OT Levitical tithes were brought first to the Levitical cities and not to the Temple (Num 18; Neh 10:37-39; 2 Chron 31:15-19). Most Levites required tithes in their Levitical cities where 98% stayed (Num 35, Josh 20, 21).

12.  Malachi 3 is the most abused tithing text in the Bible. (1) Malachi is OT and is never quoted in the New Covenant to validate tithing. (2) Tithes are still only food. (3) His audience reaffirmed the OT curses (Neh.10:28-29). (4) The blessings and curses of tithing are identical to and inseparable from those of the entire Mosaic Law (Deu 28:12, 23-24; Gal 3:10/Deu 27:26). (5) “You” in Malachi refers to the dishonest priests and not the people (1:6-14; 2:1-10; 2:13 to 3:1-5). (6) The “whole” tithe never went to the Temple! (Neh 10:37b). (7) The Levitical cities must be included in a correct interpretation. (8) The 24 courses of Levites and priests must be included. (9) The “storehouse” in the Temple was only several rooms (Neh 13:5, 9). (9) “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse” only makes contextual sense if it is only commanding dishonest priests to replace the tithes they had removed from it or had failed to bring to it.

13.  The OT Temple and priesthood have been replaced by the priesthood of every believer. NT elders and pastors more closely resemble OT prophets who were not supported by tithes.

14.  Tithing was not legalized as a church law until AD 777. If was not introduced as a local regional law until the 6th century.  See any reputable encyclopedia.

15.  NT giving principles are: freewill, sacrificial, generous, joyful, not by commandment or percentage and motivated by love for God and lost souls.

From the book, Should the Church Teach Tithing?
www.tithing-russkelly.com   russell-kelly@att.net</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article. Thanks.\\1. Post-Calvary Christian giving principles in Second Corinthians are superior to tithing. (1) Giving is a &#8220;grace.” (2) Give yourself to God first. (3) Give yourself to knowing God’s will. (4) Give in response to Christ’s gift. (5) Give out of a sincere desire. (6) Do not give because of any commandment (8:8, 10; 9:7). (7) Give beyond your ability. (8) Give to produce equality. (9) Give joyfully (8:2). (10) Give because you are growing spiritually. (11) Give to continue growing spiritually. (12) Give because you are hearing the gospel preached.</p>
<p>2.  Abraham&#8217;s tithed in Genesis 14 in obedience to pagan tradition. (1) He did not &#8220;freely&#8221; give. (2) His was NOT a holy tithe from God’s holy land by God’s holy people under God’s holy Covenant. (3) His was only from pagan spoils of war required in many nations. (4) In Num. 31, God required 1% of spoils. (5) His tithe to his priest-king was a one-time event. (6) Not from his personal property. (7) Kept nothing for himself. (8) Is not quoted to endorse tithing. (9) Most commentaries explain 14:21 as pagan Arab tradition, it is contradictory to explain the 90% of 14:21 as pagan, while insisting the 10% of 14:20 was obedience to God’s will. (10) If Abraham were an example for Christians to give 10%, he should also be an example for Christians to give the other 90% to Satan, or to the king of Sodom! (11) As priests, neither Abraham nor Jacob had a Levitical priesthood to support; they probably left food for the poor at their altars.</p>
<p>3.  Although money was common and essential for worship for over 1500 years, biblical tithes were always only food increased by God from inside Israel (Lev. 27:30, 32; see site for all 16 texts).</p>
<p>4.  Since only farmers and herdsmen tithed, there was no minimum standard requirement for most.  Tradesmen such as carpenters (Jesus), Peter (fishermen) and Paul (tentmakers) did not qualify as tithe-payers. The poor and Gentiles did not tithe.</p>
<p>5.  Tithing was only commanded to national Israel under the terms of the Old Covenant. Tithing was never commanded to the Church after Calvary (Ex 19:5-6; Lev 27:34; Mal 4:4; Mt 23:23 matters of the law).</p>
<p>6.  Those who received the first whole tithe did not minister atonement (Num. 18:21-24; Neh10:37b). Priests only received 1% (a tenth of the tithe) (Num 18:25-28; Neh 10:38).</p>
<p>7. In exchange for receiving tithes, both Levites and priests forfeited all rights to permanent land inheritance inside Israel (Num. 18:20-26).</p>
<p>8.  Firstfruits are not the same as tithes. Firstfruits were a very small token offering (Deu 26:1-4; Neh 10:35-37; Num 18:13-17). Tithes were the tenth and not the best; only 1% of the tithes included the best (Lev. 27:32, 33).</p>
<p>9.  There were 4 O.T. tithes: (1) Government taxes (1 Sam 8:14-17). (2) Levitical (Num. 18:21-28; Neh. 10:37-39). (3) Festival (Deu 12:1-19; 14:22-26). (3) Poor tithe every 3rd year (Deu 14:28-29; 26:12-13).</p>
<p>10.  Tithes were often taxes used to support Levite [politicians (1 Chron, chap 23 to 26; esp 23:2-5; 26:29-32; 27:5). Tithes never supported mission work (Ex 23:32; Heb 7:12-18).</p>
<p>11.  OT Levitical tithes were brought first to the Levitical cities and not to the Temple (Num 18; Neh 10:37-39; 2 Chron 31:15-19). Most Levites required tithes in their Levitical cities where 98% stayed (Num 35, Josh 20, 21).</p>
<p>12.  Malachi 3 is the most abused tithing text in the Bible. (1) Malachi is OT and is never quoted in the New Covenant to validate tithing. (2) Tithes are still only food. (3) His audience reaffirmed the OT curses (Neh.10:28-29). (4) The blessings and curses of tithing are identical to and inseparable from those of the entire Mosaic Law (Deu 28:12, 23-24; Gal 3:10/Deu 27:26). (5) “You” in Malachi refers to the dishonest priests and not the people (1:6-14; 2:1-10; 2:13 to 3:1-5). (6) The “whole” tithe never went to the Temple! (Neh 10:37b). (7) The Levitical cities must be included in a correct interpretation. (8) The 24 courses of Levites and priests must be included. (9) The “storehouse” in the Temple was only several rooms (Neh 13:5, 9). (9) “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse” only makes contextual sense if it is only commanding dishonest priests to replace the tithes they had removed from it or had failed to bring to it.</p>
<p>13.  The OT Temple and priesthood have been replaced by the priesthood of every believer. NT elders and pastors more closely resemble OT prophets who were not supported by tithes.</p>
<p>14.  Tithing was not legalized as a church law until AD 777. If was not introduced as a local regional law until the 6th century.  See any reputable encyclopedia.</p>
<p>15.  NT giving principles are: freewill, sacrificial, generous, joyful, not by commandment or percentage and motivated by love for God and lost souls.</p>
<p>From the book, Should the Church Teach Tithing?<br />
<a href="http://www.tithing-russkelly.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.tithing-russkelly.com</a>   <a href="mailto:russell-kelly@att.net">russell-kelly@att.net</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/church-reform/tithing-ethos/comment-page-1/#comment-291</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=301#comment-291</guid>
		<description>I came across this dealing with Tithing that I think is a good read for us all...
http://www.lifestreamteaching.com/Teaching%20pdf/Principle%20of%20the%20Tithe.pdf

Thanks,
Jeremy from sharingtruth.wordpress.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came across this dealing with Tithing that I think is a good read for us all&#8230;<br />
<a href="http://www.lifestreamteaching.com/Teaching%20pdf/Principle%20of%20the%20Tithe.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.lifestreamteaching.com/Teaching%20pdf/Principle%20of%20the%20Tithe.pdf</a></p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
Jeremy from sharingtruth.wordpress.com</p>
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		<title>By: Helen Fuller</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/church-reform/tithing-ethos/comment-page-1/#comment-290</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen Fuller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=301#comment-290</guid>
		<description>A thought provoking piece. Yes, Christians should be &#039;tithing&#039; but what percentage that should be is open for discussion - some in the church can afford to give more than 10%, others can afford to give less. As you say it is between the individual and God. The principle of giving needs to be taught though; it shouldn&#039;t be assumed that people know what to do, as if it was knowledge that was imparted at the point of salvation</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A thought provoking piece. Yes, Christians should be &#8216;tithing&#8217; but what percentage that should be is open for discussion &#8211; some in the church can afford to give more than 10%, others can afford to give less. As you say it is between the individual and God. The principle of giving needs to be taught though; it shouldn&#8217;t be assumed that people know what to do, as if it was knowledge that was imparted at the point of salvation</p>
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		<title>By: atruefaith</title>
		<link>http://churchethos.com/church-reform/tithing-ethos/comment-page-1/#comment-289</link>
		<dc:creator>atruefaith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchethos.wordpress.com/?p=301#comment-289</guid>
		<description>Great article.  Balanced and comprehensive.

Brad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article.  Balanced and comprehensive.</p>
<p>Brad</p>
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